12 Voluntarist v National Socialist Progressive via e-mail.2008

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'The Pledge of Allegiance' - by Senator John McCain

'As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room.

This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans on behalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home.

One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian.

Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School. Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967. Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country and our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed.

As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing.

Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the inside of his shirt.

Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance.

I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event.

One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it.

That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all of us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could

The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung, one in each corner of the room.

As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag. He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to Pledge our allegiance to our flag and country.

So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country.'

'I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

The pledge of allegiance was developed by socialist minister Frances Bellamy to indoctrinate children into being loyal servants to the State.

You are expected to promise to obey a man-made article that represents a man-made artifact. You are expected to obey a non-existent nonentity, with no justice, and no liberty for most folks nbsp; Let's talk reality.

The republic is really a dictatorship.
There is no such thing as justice.
Liberty has been abolished over the last 70 years, or more, a bit at a time.
The original pledge did not refer to God at all. That reference was added to help people distinguish between the United Socialist State of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
The war of southern secession resulted in a centrally-governed State that does not allow states to secede from the Union.

McCain has already promised to send your children, your grandchildren, their children, and their grandchildren to die at the behest of cannibals. Obama will do likewise.

The war on terror is a war against you.

Doc Ellis 124

Progressive response #1
Doc, that is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have read in a long long time. You want to talk about "liberty"... the mere fact that you have put such gibberish into written form and have signed your name to it with no fear of repercussion is testament to the liberty you so obviously take for granted. You also exercised your freedom of speech in sending an unsolicited opinion to someone whose e-mail you obtained by simple virtue of a club membership, therefore I am going to exercise my right to privacy and request you remove my e-mail from your batch messages. Thank you

Progressive response #2

Hey, I actually think this did not come from lions membership (at least not Acton, maybe AD) but it blew me away. Is this a fellow Lion's member talking? Thank you for voicing your opinion. I a pretty picky about who I email. I would never mass email a group of club members- any club for that matter. Gads! Look I won't "reply to all" because I am that picky. I am however "blank copying" a few. So proud to be an American!

Progressive response #3

Keep your political trash for yourself. As a naturalized citizen I don't need to be educated in American history. I came here for the very reasons our Constitution stands for. I was raised under Hitler's dictatorship. You need to be educated in different forms of government. You don't know what you are talking about.
Do not reply and remove me from your spam list.
Proud to be an American! 

OK, guys:

If your name was on the distribution list of the e-mail to which I replied, you got my reply.
When I respond to agitprop, I reply to everyone.

Just because you have what it takes to be a naturalized citizen, does not mean you can't be mistaken about life in your adopted country. Life elsewhere may have been worse than here. Life here has been degraded by people who are supposed to be working for you, not ruling you.

Have you forgotten that The Military Commissions Act of 2006 stripped the right of habeas corpus from all folks, not just terrorism suspects?
Have you forgotten that the President, the Vice President, and many other elected officials lied to you to justify attacks on un-armed men, women and children by armed men and women? Do you really believe that you have as much liberty today as you had when you were naturalized?

Lions: You better take a look at the distribution list to this John McCain's remarks. You will see that it has a lot of names including some Lions. Do you still think that I sent this to you because you're a Lion? Let me ask you something, "What do the letters L,I,ONS mean?"
L=liberty, I=intelligence, ONS= our nation's safety. You have to have the first two to get the last.

Why are you upset that I stand up for your own rights? I believe that utopia is not an option. I believe that you own you. Why do you have a problem with me speaking against propaganda, put out by people advancing the cult of the state? Why are you angry about reading about how little liberty we have? Are you afraid that the truth in which you trusted is a lie?

So, really, why do you have a problem with someone declaring that the pledge of allegiance is a lie?

One: you live in a dictatorship, not a republic. The Soviet Union had a President who was elected, an Assembly that was elected, and Courts, just like the United State with a President, Congress, and Federal Courts. The Soviet Union has been recognized as being a dictatorship. Yet citizens voted these people into power, just as citizens vote people into power over here.

Two: Justice is the restoration to a prior state of property affected by a tort. You know, there is no way to restore you to life if you are murdered. There is no way to restore peace of mind when you discover that you have been robbed. There is no way to make up for the damage inflicted on your ancestors by other ancestors.

Three: Ever since the Constitution was ratified, folks in the US have tried to steer the course of government in their favor at the expense of the liberties of everyone else. For example, four of the first such efforts the Naturalization Act, Alien Friends Act, Alien Enemies Act,and Sedition Act, enacted by the Congress in 1798, all violated the tenth amendment to the Constitution. Today, you and I have less liberty than our counterparts living then. In my lifetime, laws have been passed that deny us the right to self-defense, the right to privacy, the right to possess property.

Four: Socialist Baptist minister Francis Bellamy, devised the pledge in 1892 reportedly to teach obedience to the State as a virtue. If you believe obedience to the State is a virtue, there is nothing I can do for you.

Now I have supported my position. I have not seen any rational or documented responses to my reply.

You have not made your case.

One more time, if you get my reply to agitprop, your name was on the distribution list of that agitprop.

Doc Ellis,

proud to be a liberty-oriented LIONS man

11 Voluntarist v National Socialist Progressive

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Illegals are invaders and law breakers, here to take what is not theirs. We have laws providing people the opportunity to come here to work or to be a citizen. Though the laws may not be perfect they are in place to protect all concerned. I feel no illegal nor non- citizen should be able to receive ANY resource such has housing, food stamps, medicaid, medicare or aid of any kind ;these should be for citizens only . ALL jobs should be open to our own citizens, esp our veterans first . Humanitarian efforts should be done in their country not ours. America can not save the world, in reality she is now ignoring her own citizens to help others for political reasons. Until the job situation for our own citizens, who are unemployed and for whatever reason why ,an able body citizen is not working is resolved, I say our border should be closed.

Illegals are invaders and law breakers, here to take what is not theirs.---

--isn't that what government folks do? invade and steal? violate international laws? aren't you writing about the US government?

We have laws providing people the opportunity to come here to work or to be a citizen.
---you mean as in Germany in 1933?

Though the laws may not be perfect they are in place to protect all concerned.

---such as insecure, frightened folks like you?

 I feel no illegal nor non- citizen should be able to receive ANY resource such has housing,food stamps, medicaid, medicare or aid of any kind ;these should be for citizens only

---isn't that how folks lived in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s? and why are these resources properly provided by government folks using stolen resources?

ALL jobs should be open to our own citizens, esp our veterans first .

----so you think that employers must behave according to your wants? I get that you are promoting socialism, that is government folks get to decide who works where.

 America can not save the world, in reality she is now ignoring her own citizens to help others for political reasons

---so, something that does not exist cannot save the world....true...neither can it ignore or help....

 Until the job situation for our own citizens, who are unemployed and for whatever reason why ,an able body citizen is not working is resolved, I say our border should be closed.

---so you want to live like folks in North Korea, or in East Germany, or in Cuba...all these areas have or had closed borders...

No, I do not promote socialism I promote USA Americanism...where the US citizens have top priority ,no matter who they might be, to any resources they have and are taxed for. I do not promote an open border, I do promote enforcing our immigration laws in place. I promote sending help, if appropriate to do so, to people in their own country not bringing them to ours.

in other words that form of progressivsm known as national socialism....got it...

I promote supporting our US troops. I promote flying the US flag here in our country. I promote speaking English and all others learning it. I promote protecting our US citizens from other countries felons and contagious diseases.

 I promote getting Obama and his crew out of office!!!!!!!

Doc Ellis sounds to me you support socialism not I.

 I promote supporting our US troops.

---a lot like folks in Italy in 1929-1940s

I promote flying the US flag here in our country. I promote speaking English and all others learning it.

---just like folks in Germany or China...

I promote protecting our US citizens from other countries felons and contagious diseases.

---another progressive argument for controlling other folks behaviour

about socialism

http://sweetwaterlibertydispatch.blogspot.com/2009/08/anti-socialist.html

I am thinking you have been brain washed with the Obama way of thinking...perhaps you should reread the older books of history to get the true facts and see how the Obama administration seems to be following Hitler's way of thinking. I am a full supporter of all people who go through the legal way of US citizenship or to be able to work in the US to better themselves or to go to our colleges. But unless your are a citizen of the USA..... NO BENEFITS PERIOD, THEY SHOULD SUPPORT THEMSELVES .....or go home.Like I said we have Immigration Laws not much different than other countries. OUR CITIZENS SHOULD HAVE JOBS over any other period! We have these laws in place to protect the US citizens .Doc Ellis perhaps you may be happier living in another country if you do not like ours. You do have the freedom to leave you know.

I get that you did not read what I wrote about socialism....

You apparently can not recognize a US citizen who does not believe nor support socialism or dictatorship... I say Sir, you are simply stirring the pot ,getting nothing done but complaining. If you are sincere in promoting action perhaps you could take your solutions starting in your own political community to apply for true change.

that would start with refusing to have anything to do with any government folks.... you do not know what socialism or what progressivsm are. you make no effort to dispute my analysis of your stated beliefs. instead, you use beside-the-point arguments that reveal to a discerning reader that you are a government-oriented individual...

by the way, I hire who ever I want to hire. How dare you demand that I hire whoever you want me to hire? I do business without regard to whether my client is in this neighborhood with government folks' permission. And you say you do not support dictatorship? by what authority do you presume to direct my associations for business or other purposes? You say you are not socialist, yet you demand that I hire government-approved folks.

Conservative Collectivist Country Propaganda 2010.07.12

From a propagandist:

What has happened to our country since 911? If people who live in our country don't like our country - don't believe it is a privilege to live in America - don't pledge their allegiance to our flag, constitution, and sovereignty and support our constitution and military - then they are free to leave - The beauty of America for those who don't pledge their allegiance to America is freedom - Any person is free to leave the U.S.!

My response:

You say our country.  What do you mean?  I do not own a country.  Do you own a country?

You say that living is a privilege.  That is the clearest indication of a collectivist that I have ever seen.

The pledge of allegiance is a nationalist socialist scam.  It was developed by a man who wanted to divert folks’ attention from self ownership to obedience to a State.

The flag that you worship is a banner under which thousands of killers have slaughtered millions of innocents in the name of liberating them.

A constitution is a compromised condom that governments use for protection when they use that instrument called law to rape those over whom they exercise power. 

Sovereignty is ownership of a life.  You clearly believe that the lives of those who live within the borders of, and under the power, the US are owned by its government.  You are wrong.  I own my life.  No one else owns my life.

Military employees kill folks for the benefit of governments.  

You say that folks can leave.  Not so true.   Just try to leave for a more liberty-oriented society.  No such place at the present.

Freedom is the power to say no.  Liberty is that state of living where saying no is respected.  Not here in the US.  Folks can go to jail or die for saying no.

People like you are the ones responsible for the destruction of innocent lives by US government employees, federal, state, and local.  People like you have made the election of folks like Bushit I, Cliton, Bushit II, and Oshita possible.  People like you made the bankruptcies, fiscal and moral, of the US society possible.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Propagandist reply:

Doc, sorry you hate our country, but I love it and I love the American people - all countries have problems - that means you don't support our military men and women - my dad and uncles were wounded in the war fighting for our freedom including yours - But, as I state, you are living in a free nation because of the veterans and our military - and you, too, are free to leave and also to remove yourself from my site.

 Don't address me as "people like you." That's insulting and please remove me from your site.

Ed Freeman

These links are about Ed Freeman. The propaganda is mostly true. The lies are bold italic. If you are gonna pass around propaganda, research it first so you can clean it up before forwarding it and/or defend it if you are challenged by a reader The Freeman story does not need embellishment of lies. It stands alone. Research the propaganda. Clean it up. Send it. Why is that so hard to do?

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/military/a/ed_freeman.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Freeman

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/freeman.asp

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/e/ed-freeman.htm

Ed Freeman

You're a 19-year-old kid. You're critically wounded and dying in the jungle in the Ia Drang Valley, 11-14-1965, LZ X-ray, Vietnam. Your infantry unit is outnumbered 8-1 and the enemy fire is so intense, from 100 or 200 yards away, that your own Infantry Commander has ordered the MediVac helicopters to stop coming in.

You're lying there, listening to the enemy machine guns, and you know you're not getting out. Your family is half way around the world, 12,000 miles away and you'll never see them again. As the world starts to fade in and out, you know this is the day.

Then, over the machine gun noise, you faintly hear that sound of a helicopter and you look up to see an unarmed Huey, but it doesn't seem real because no Medi-Vac markings are on it.

Ed Freeman is coming for you. He's not Medi-Vac, so it's not his job, but he's flying his Huey down into the machine gun fire, after the Medi-Vacs were ordered not to come.

He's coming anyway.

And he drops it in and sits there in the machine gun fire as they load 2 or 3 of you on board.

Then he flies you up and out, through the gunfire to the doctors and nurses.

And he kept coming back, 13 more times, and took about 30 of you and your buddies out, who would never have gotten out.

Medal of Honor Recipient Ed Freeman died on Wednesday, June 25th, 2009, at the age of 80, in Boise, ID. May God rest his soul.

Medal of Honor Winner, Ed Freeman!

Michael Jackson dies and it’s 24/7 news coverage. A real hero dies and not a mention of it anywhere except in the Boise Obituaries.
The media has no honor and God is watching.

Since the media didn't give him the coverage he deserves, send this to every red-blooded American you know.

THANKS AGAIN, ED, FOR WHAT YOU DID FOR OUR COUNTRY.
RIP

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs.

http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm (From the book, "On Combat", by Lt Col.Dave Grossman)

It is well written and thought out propaganda. Note that only government employees are qualified to be "sheepdogs". If you are not a government employee, you have to be a "wolf" or a "sheep". If you are a "wolf", even if you never harm a "sheep", you are fair game for the "sheepdog".

I work around a lot of different animals including sheepdogs and sheep. These animals don't always behave the way folks say.

I have been reading "In Praise of Wolves" by RD Lawrence. He says that wolves only kill to eat and that they have a method of interacting that enables them to survive. Looks to me like wolves don't always behave the way folks say.

In this analogy, animals are consumption actors. Herbivore “Citizen Ewe” is shepherded, sheared, shagged, slaughtered, and savored. Carnivorous “Deputy Dog” cooperates and collaborates, corralling the sheep. Carnivorous “Outlaw Wolf” competes, and consumes.

So, who owns sheep? Who directs dogs? Who defines wolves?

You own you. You are not chattel requiring protection. You are not a dog obligated to defend owner interests of chattel. You are not a wolf destroying chattel. You are a human who can learn to defend himself, who can join with other like-minded folks in mutual defense, who can control his impulses to consume more than he produces.

-posted at http://teambogart.blogspot.com/2009/05/sheep-wolves-and-sheepdogs.html

Patriotism

Patriotism by Begala

"Patriotism is putting your country ahead of yourself" –Paul Begala :http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/15/begala.taxes/index.html

This is the ultimate summary of the collectivist. This is the view that you owe to a metaphysical nonentity a duty to exchange what is most beneficial to you for that which benefits the nonentity.

Patriotism is a form of collectivism.
Collectivism is a form of stupidity and moral laziness.
Stupidity is a refusal to think. Moral laziness is support for hateful action against a person in the name of love for a nonentity.

anti-Fonda Rant

To the author and to those who pass this along:
The following links pertain to propaganda that follows.

https://tinyurl.com/bdz8yv5w

https://tinyurl.com/38jjd7hz

https://tinyurl.com/5ac6jfdy

Propaganda is this font. Commentary is this font..

“SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT
“YES SHE WAS A TRAITOR..!!
“In Memory of my brother-in-law LT. C. Thomsen Wieland who spent 100 days at the Hanoi Hilton
“She really was a Traitor
“IF YOU NEVER FORWARDED ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE FORWARD THIS SO THAT EVERYONE WILL KNOW!!!!!!
“She really was a traitor
“A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA”
This screed is atrocious. First the author and you advocate killing Jane Fonda. He says, three times, that Jane Fonda is a traitor. He and you want her to die for a lie, for two lies, for three lies. He includes an emotional dedication to some guy. Then he and you want me to forward this. Well, if I’m gonna forward something, shouldn’t it be legit? I have linked articles that address this propaganda at the top of this page.

“This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do not remember, and didn't have to bear the burden that our fathers, mothers and older brothers and sisters had to bear.
The author addresses this to ignorant amnesiacs who are unburdened by knowledge that loved ones had been tasked with killing and/or dying for the so-called safety of other people.

“Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the '100 Women of the Century.' BY BARBRA WALTERS
“Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.”
So Fonda allegedly betrayed an idea that you, a real person, must be willing to kill and/or die for the benefit of a metaphysical nonentity. She apparently betrayed the idea that you belong to someone else, who has the right to dispose of your life, your liberty, and your property, to somebody’s benefit. And Fonda reportedly betrayed certain hired killers, some of whom died.
LIE NUMBER ONE:

“The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison the 'Hanoi Hilton. Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American 'Peace Activist' the 'lenient and humane treatment' he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed and was dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward on to the camp Commandant 's feet which sent that officer berserk. In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied application of a wooden baton.”
Driscoll has flatly denied that this happened. He does not know how his name got linked to Fonda as a victim of her ‘treason’. In addition, why is this incident an act of treason by Fonda if Driscoll was supposed to have been punished after he spat at her? Neither the author nor you care about defining an act as treason using rational criteria, but are willing to hammer Fonda for events that did not occur, or were not her fault.
LIE NUMBER TWO:

“From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the 'Hanoi Hilton',,, the first three of which his family only knew he was 'missing in action'. His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed[,clothed routine in preparation for a ‘peace delegation’ visit. They, however had time and devised a plan to] get word to the world that they were alive and still survived.. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand...When [they were] paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: 'Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?' and 'Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?' Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed to her a sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper. Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know of her actions that day.”
Carrigan has denied that this happened. He also does not know how his name got linked to Fonda. Snopes noted that she met with seven POWs who had not been tortured to force them to meet with her. Does meeting with non-tortured men make her a traitor? Fonda did meet with POWs and did accept paper from them, envelopes with letters addressed to family members in the US. She delivered those letters to their recipients.

LIE NUMBER THREE:
“I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam , and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in Cambodia ; and one year in a 'black box' in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam , whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.' When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with her. I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received... and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as 'humane and lenient.' Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched with large steel weights placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me.”
What treason did Fonda commit? There is no information that Fonda actually met this fellow. I have not found an account of a meeting between them. This guy was tortured after he told the PO yes he would meet with her. It is obviously her bad, right? No, this is a lie that Fonda was responsible for the torture that the NVA folks inflicted.

“These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of '100 Years of Great Women.' Lest we forget...' 100 Years of Great Women' should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.
“RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF 716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of Maintenance DSN: 875-6431 COMM: 883-6343
“PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER STATUS WILL CHANGE”
You seem to think that Fonda owes to you her life for actions that never happened, or for which she was not responsible. You seem to believe that you have a right to execute someone for spite.

Meaning of Flag Draped Coffin

Propaganda is this font. Commentary is this font

I get a fair amount of patriotic propaganda that includes appeals from a religious/statist perspective. Often, the propagators claim that the US is some sort of exceptional nation-state for which normal rules of skeptical regard toward governments ought not apply. If they don't make this claim outright, they trust the reader to have incorporated the claim into his thinking.

One such piece purports to instruct readers in the meaning of folding a flag. It uses loaded words that are meant to evoke a positive emotive response, predisposing the reader to regard service to the state as a virtue superior to service to his own best interests. Take a look at this piece:

All Americans should be given this lesson. Those who think that America is an arrogant nation should really reconsider that thought. Our founding fathers used GOD's word and teachings to establish our Great Nation and I think it's high time Americans get reeducated about this Nation's history. Pass it along and be proud of the country we live in and even more proud of those who serve to protect our 'GOD GIVEN' rights and freedoms. To understand what the flag draped coffin really means...... Here is how to understand the flag that laid upon it and is surrendered to so many widows and widowers. Do you know that at military funerals, the 21-gun salute stands for the sum of the numbers in the year 1776? Have you ever noticed the honor guard pays meticulous attention to correctly folding the United States of America Flag 13 times? You probably thought it was to symbolize the original 13 colonies, but we learn something new every day! The 1st fold of the flag is a symbol of life. The 2nd fold is a symbol of the belief in eternal life. The 3rd fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veterans departing the ranks who gave a portion of their lives for the defense of the country to attain peace throughout the world. The 4th fold represents the weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in time of war for His divine guidance. The 5th fold is a tribute to the country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, 'Our Country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong.' The 6th fold is for where people's hearts lie. It is with their heart that They pledge allegiance to   the flag of the United States Of America, and the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all. The 7th fold is a tribute to its Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that they protect their country and their flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of their republic. The 8th fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day. The 9th fold is a tribute to womanhood, and Mothers. For it has been through their faith, their love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great has been molded. The 10th fold is a tribute to the father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of their country since they were first born. The 11th fold represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon and glorifies in the Hebrews eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The 12th fold represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in the Christians eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. The 13th fold, or when the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost reminding them of their nations motto, 'In God We Trust.' After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington, and the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for them the rights, privileges and freedoms they enjoy today. There are some traditions and ways of doing things that have deep meaning. In the future, you'll see flags folded and now you will know why. Share this with the children you love and all others who love what is referred to, the symbol of ' Liberty and Freedom.'  MAYBE THE SUPREME COURT SHOULD READ THIS EXPLANATION BEFORE THEY RENDER THEIR DECISION ON THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. FORWARD IT; MAYBE SOMEONE WITH THE NECESSARY POWER, OR POLITICAL AND FINANCIAL INFLUENCE, WILL GET IT TO THEM. IN THE MEANTIME, MAY GOD PROTECT US ALWAYS. ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. 'In God We Trust' This propaganda is all about flag worship. I checked Snopes :http://www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.asp. I checked TruthorFiction:http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/f/foldsoftheflag.htm

This is a lie. Obedience to, allegiance to, or regard for a man-made article is idolatry. The pledge was developed by a self-avowed national socialist by the name of Francis Bellamy in 1892 to indoctrinate children into believing that service to the state is a virtue, and to persuade people that something called the Nation supported such flag worship. All governments are intrinsically evil. They are developed by people who are wicked. They are used by the wicked to rule the wicked. So-called Christians who promote flag worship will answer to their saviour.

Here is a response:

"I don't believe anyone is promoting WORSHIP of the flag - but a definite reverence for the GOODNESS it symbolizes. I cannot disagree more with the statement that all governments and the people who create them are"wicked" and/or "evil." Our founding fathers were good and decent men who fought to throw off the shackles of tyranny and allow men to live free - as God intended. It is easy to be cynical about government. It takes more effort, thought, faith, and strength to actually believe in and participate and continue to keep our country a shining beacon for the world. To suggest one cannot be a good Christian and still say the pledge of allegiance or be a good American is...well......fanatical. And dangerous. I don't know who Doc Ellis is, but I'd appreciate being taken off of this email group."

This was my reply:
A real Christian understands that people are wicked out the gate.

• By the Bible, there are no good and decent men.
• By the Bible, people would rather believe lies than face the truth of their own nature, or that of those who lived before.
• By the Bible, what men regard as good, God regards as evil.

God intended that his people revere him of their own free will. If they would rather pledge allegiance to a symbol, they have that right to do so.

You know who I am.

I stand by what I wrote: The pledge is a lie. Veneration of the american flag is idolatry. So-called Christians who promote flag worship will answer to their lord.

Here are comments by the gal that sent this propaganda to me:

"please do not email your views to people on my email list, I sent you that thing on the flag and I don't appreciate you using my list of email addresses to voice your views, if you want to send them to me that's fine please leave my other friends off your email returns. by the way that had NOTHING to do with worship. I don't worship the flag, I'm proud to be an American, and our forefathers fought against tyranny. no where in the Bible does it say you can not love your country or not to protect it from others. this nation was founded on scripture and christian principals and it is not a sin to pledge allegiance to things that are Godly or concepts that are based on scripture"

And my reply:

The problem is that there is no Biblical authority for allegiance to the state. Your kingdom, and your concerns, are not of this world. You are only called to preach the gospel, not to defend or advance worldly concerns. You are directed to focus on advancing God's agenda, not those agendas of men. There are no indications in the Bible that church and state should work together.

Please note: Satan operates by leading you to believe that what you are doing is right. God tells folks that they are wrong. In the Bible, kings are almost always bad guys. In American history, presidents are good guys.

I regard fighting tyranny as a good thing. God may regard fighting tyranny as an usurpation of his own order. You are correct that the Bible does not prohibit loving your country. Nor does the Bible prohibit me from labeling love of country as a form of national socialism. Now, you know that I can back up what I believe. So far, not one person has provided a rational rebuttal to my views. I think that the fact that several folks have whined about my views and have asked not to get them is a very strong indication that I am on the right path in denouncing the views in pro-state propaganda.

My friend's response:

"it's really amazing that you have admitted to not believing in Christ but yet you find it necessary to tell those of us that do how to live our lives, you are not an authority on how christians should live and you have no business telling us how to live. just because the Bible does not come out and say not to do something does not mean we can't. the Bible says nothing about smoking, but yet most christians feel that it is wrong. we have to care about our freedoms and our country in order to keep our right to worship as we please. and just to remind you King David and Solomon were some of the most holy and honest men to ever rule a people or country and they were both "hand picked" by God. And Jesus Christ will return and rule as King. and the Bible makes it very clear that we are to give to God what is God's and what is Caesar's give to Caesar. the Bible is also very clear that we are to obey those in authority over us because ALL our rulers, kings, presidents or whatever are there because God allows them to be there. If you don't like this country why don't you pack up and go live somewhere else and see how long you remain a free person for voicing your anti-goverment nonsense. you sure enjoy the rights this country and goverment allow you to have but yet you whine and complain about how bad it is.....the only person I've heard whining lately is you"

So far, no one has managed to make a case that reverence for a flag is a good thing. In fact, one promoter of flag reverence claims that government or a metaphysical nonentity (“this country”) grants to you your right to act, and your life belongs to the state (Caesar), not to God or to yourself.


update 24 Sep 2009 http://www.banned-books.com/truth-seeker/1994archive/121_5/ts215b.html  "The Gold Fringed Flag", by Bohren, 1994  The fringe on U S flag denotes that the area over which it flies is under the command of U S President or U S Military.  


http://scmla.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/history-of-the-us-civil-flag/  "History of the US Civil Flag"
So Cal Martial Law Alerts, 9 Sep 2009   A discussion of civil vs military flags.

Six Boys and Thirteen Hands

Copyrighted propaganda at http://iwvpa.net/powersmt/index.php. I have posted a link because the whiny author filed a complaint with Blogger. See the comments.

SIX BOYS AND THIRTEEN HANDS ....
(written about 2000 by Mike Powers)

This starts the copyrighted section as read by me, using this font and size.

Added material are in bold in this font and size. Commentary is in this font and size.

Powers claims that he takes annual trips to Washington DC to videotape children, something that he remembers fondly.

Powers said that he and the children tarried at the world’s largest bronze idol depicting six government employees collaborating in a photo op.

Powers said a loiterer asked the mob of charges and their caretakers whence they had traveled.

Powers said when the loiterer heard they were cheese-heads, he told them that he was James Bradley, author of a book, and offered to tell them a story if they would come closer to him.

Bradley claimed to be descended from one of the government employees.

Bradley said that a half-a-dozen juveniles raised a flag. Harlan Block, whose claims to heroism were that he was an athlete and a government employee, depicted putting a pole into the ground, was the first subject of Bradley’s remarks. Without intending to gross his listeners out, he said that 21-year-old Block died handling his own guts. He incoherently said that the majority of juveniles at Iwo Jima were 17-19 years old and something was so difficult that survivors wouldn’t talk about it.

Bradley pointed out 18-year-old New Hampshire resident Rene Gagnon who carried a photo of his girlfriend in his helmet lining as a totem against his fear.
Bradley repeatedly said that juveniles, not senior citizens, won the Iwo Jima conflict.

Bradley continued his story by discussing Sergeant Mike Strank. Bradley said that ‘the old man’ Strank, 24, was hero to the other juveniles and to him. Strank, knowing that he was talking to little boys, would promise that he would get them home to their mommies, instead of trying to motivate them by appeals to prejudice or nationalism.

Bradley said the fourth subject, Arizona Pima Ira Hayes, one of 27 survivors (out of 250 comrades) of the battle, rejected President Truman’s compliment that he was a hero, asking how to feel like a hero when so many of his friends died.

Bradley likened Marine life to school life: in which 250 guys enjoy doing together everything during a year, then go to the beach, and 223 guys die. He said that Hayes, while drunk from trying to erase the pain of horrific mental images, died ten years after the photo opp.

Bradley said that the fifth guy, Franklin Sousley, a high-spirited irresponsible juvenile resident of Hilltop, KY, once fed Epsom salts to a pair of cows that he and a friend confined on a store porch. The cows pooped until morning. He sure was a high-spirited irresponsible juvenile who died at 19 on Iwo Jima. His mother freaked out all night after a shoeless child delivered to her a telegram informing her that Franklin was dead. Neighbors a quarter-mile away could hear her carrying on.

(What’s the point? The woman just found out that she had wasted part of her life. Her son, in whom she had invested so much of her resources, was gone.)

Bradley concluded his tour of the idol by talking about his father, John Bradley, a home town resident until he died in 1994. Bradley senior taught his kids to lie about him so folks would not interview him.

Bradley said that his dad, a medic who may have held over 200 writhing and screaming juveniles without pain relief until they died, like Haynes, did not see himself as a hero just because he was part of an idol or a picture.

Bradley reminisced that a teacher idolized his dad as a hero. His dad disagreed by admonishing him to remember that the guys who died were the heroes. The guys who died were the heroes.

Bradley summarized that three juveniles died and three juveniles returned acclaimed heroes from the historically worst battle fought by the Marines. He thanked his listeners and ended his remarks.

Powers perceives the idol as more than scrap with a rag on top. To Powers, the idol lives because an adult son of an amorphous hero spoke.

This ends the copyrighted portions as read by me. The following items within [brackets] are apocryphal:

[We need to remember that God created this vast and glorious world for us to live in, freely, but also at great sacrifice

[Let us never forget from the Revolutionary War to the current War on Terrorism and all the wars in-between that sacrifice was made for our freedom.

[Remember to pray praises for this great country of ours and also pray for those still in murderous unrest around the world.

[STOP and thank God for being alive and being free at someone else's sacrifice.

[God Bless You and God Bless America

[REMINDER: Everyday that you can wake up free, it's going to be a great day.

[One thing I learned while on tour with my 8th grade students in DC that is not mentioned here is ... that if you look at the statue very closely and count the number of 'hands' raising the flag, there are 13. When the man who made the statue was asked why there were 13, he simply said the 13th hand was the hand of God.

[“Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it, shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ.”]

This is a lovely well written bit of pro-State propaganda, by Michael Powers, http://iwvpa.net/powersmt/index.php at around 2000, or so. Someone claiming to be Powers has complained to me, saying that I need his permission to post his propaganda. Since I got this from someone without any attribution, I have no obligation to respect Powers or his complaint.

I checked Snopes athttp://www.snopes.com/military/sixboys.asp I found this story at Truth or Fiction: :http://truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/bravesoldiers.htm. Both accounts that I saw included the observation that the last few paragraphs of this piece were included after Powers wrote it. A photographer, Joe Rosenthal, reportedly photographed the second raising of a Flag on a mountain five days into a thirty-five day battle. This picture lead to the sculpting of the USMC War Memorial idolized in “Six Boys”. The “Flag” picture was actually a propaganda effort. See here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Iwo_Jima for information on the battle, here for the taking of the “Flag” picturehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jimaand here for the making of the statue:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USMC_War_Memorial.

“Six Boys and Thirteen Hands”(Six Boys) is corrupt. The underlying premise to this piece is that your life belongs to someone else, that you have an obligation to serve nonentities called by such names as “faith,” “family,” or “fatherland”.

You don’t need someone to fight on your behalf at everyone’s expense. You can defend yourself. You can delegate your defense at your expense to a willing agent. You have the right to decide whether to use lethal or non-lethal reaction to aggressive action directed against you. You do not have the right to inflict collateral damage, that is, casualties on noncombatants.

You owe nothing to a metaphysical nonentity. Nor do you owe a duty to someone or something, just because you are alive.

What is freedom for which so many “lay down their lives?” Here is a definition of freedom: · "Freedom in its most elemental state is the power to withdraw one's consent when the State-or anyone else-lays an improper claim to one's life or property." -Will Grigg Reflections on Resurrection Sunday: We're Commanded to be Free ProLiberate 3.23.2008http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/search?q=reflections+on+resurrection+day

In a Utopian world, our agendas would all be compatible. In the real world, we often have partially-or even totally- incompatible agendas. Some of us try to resolve differences through negotiation. Some of us use force, -or threaten to use force –to authorize us to seize what we want. Some of us support one or the other.

The core of this paean to sacrifice is that some 7,000 men died to secure an island of negligible value in the name of securing the freedoms of “the People,” residents of a nation-state.

And this inconsequential event was promoted as a monumental battle for the greater good of the citizens of a nation-state. Many folks saw the flag raising as the climax of the Iwo Jima battle, when in fact, it was just a stunt to elevate the morale of government employees and their family members and friends.

The most pernicious part of “Six Boys” is that there is really no point to Bradley’s remarks. It’s just a collection of words meant to make readers experience emotive reactions in support for government employees.